Creative Engineering: tech = net positive for artists

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Fabio: I think it's really awesome that people from all around the world are able to connect over a shared interest, a shared passion and a lot of it comes back to Wanting to craft a new world.there's a lot of overlap between people who are into NFTs and people who are into open Mehta versus right. People who want to create, these new virtual worlds of the future, but where We are independent. We can own things and we're not essentially playing in a walled garden run by a large corporation.

[00:00:27] Isotta: This is Art Is… a podcast for artists where we brainstormed the future of the art world and the creative industries. Today. I'm sharing part two of my conversation with Fabio burger. A software engineer who is very passionate and experienced in the crypto space

[00:00:48] Isotta: If you haven't listened to part one,

[00:00:50] Isotta: I recommend you go back to season three, episode five for an intro into Fabio's really exciting upcoming NFT project movement generation, along with a deep dive into squad. The new horizontal team structure revolutionizing the future of collaborative work today, we really unpack the premise of art is seasoned three artists leveraging tech by touching upon NFT curation, online community building defining dhows with the example of the party Dow.

[00:01:18] Isotta: And we end on a reflective conversation regarding the metaverse web three. And why technology is a net positive for emerging artists and creative. I really enjoyed this conversation with Fabio and as always, I learned a lot. So I hope you do too.

[00:01:33] Isotta: Also, I would really appreciate it. If you took a moment to reflect on who in your life might also benefit from listening to this podcast,

[00:01:40] Isotta: When you do, please share art is a podcast for artists with them. So we can continue to grow the show and brainstorm the future of the art world.

[00:01:49] Isotta: One of the things that I've been focusing on for this third season of the podcast is breaking down the barriers we put up as emerging artists to understanding and exploring tech tools and the tech. And the first half of this conversation, Fabio delved into his project movement generation, which is being built by an interdisciplinary squad of people, all collaborating on creating the first ever generative music slash choreography, video and Ft.

[00:02:17] Fabio. Your project is a perfect example of the meaningful work that comes out of interdisciplinary and cross industry collaboration.

[00:02:24] Isotta: Do you see any levelling of the playing field in terms of valuing different types of skill sets in our. and how we should be thinking about adopting technical skills?

[00:02:33] Fabio: so you know, not everyone needs to be technical and I think what we're seeing is a lot of off the shelf tooling that, that a lot of artists can use to, to get their work out there. and then for anything that is maybe more custom or not so readily available there, there's partnering up.

[00:02:48] Fabio: With someone who has maybe those technical skills. at least for me, there's no way that I could have done this project without each one of these, these members of the squad. And, that's very humbling obviously. Um,can do the technology side, but

[00:03:02] Fabio: that's not enough to bake the cake, so to speak. and I think that, these other, skillsets are being valued more. and I think a large thing that's driving that is the fact that there is a market for the end product, right? there's this huge now huge NFT art market, where there's just a lot of people willing to buy, NFTs, to buy digital art.

[00:03:23] And,yet, how

[00:03:24] Fabio: do you make art without artists? It's of hard, right? one thing like related to that, which I think is just so exciting is this idea that no matter how niche your work is, are your tastes are and how you can find something in that niche. Pretty easily. and before that you maybe wouldn't have valued your niche as much. I certainly didn't until the last like 18 months.

[00:03:47] Fabio: whether that's in a niche community or a niche interest, or a niche topic, it's all kind of coming to the, to the forefront now.Yeah, absolutely. And I think, it's much easier to search through all the existing NFTs than the physical art. But, I guess it's search enough. I think even in the kind of traditional art world, there's also this role of curation, all of these galleries that are also curating, art of a specific niche.

[00:04:11] Fabio: And, I think the same thing is going to happen for NFTs. But now.

[00:04:14] Fabio: instead of, just a handful of people who have a nice gallery space, know, in a well-known part of town, pretty much anyone in the world can start curating art. And, I think we're going to start discovering some master curators or people who are,really good at just curating, art for a particular niche and are good at spotting, know, true works of art and things.

[00:04:36] our innovative inspiring and moving the space forward. And I'm very curious to see, see that play out and,and see where that goes.

[00:04:44] Fabio: in the, song curation or music curation space, all these platforms first try to use like machine learning or programs to curate, but nothing did better than actual human. so I think it's going to be even more true in visual art.

[00:04:59] because it's not something that is easily reduced to a formula.

[00:05:03] Isotta: Interesting. and so I know that in the past, you said you've been working on a lot of different projects. one of them was the party Dow. Could you tell us a little bit about that and maybe also define like what a Dow is.

[00:05:15] Fabio: sure. So I actually, haven't been working on party Dow, but it is a project that I have been following for a long time. And I know a lot of the people who are involved there, and I'm very excited about it. So, party Dao specifically as a project is a way for people to. Pull their funds together in order to buy an NFT.

[00:05:35] Fabio: So if there's a piece of art, that's very expensive, but you think that, you would like to own a piece of it. You can then pull your funds with others. And then co-own that piece of art. so where does the doubt part come in? I guess there's kind of two, places. The first is that the organization that's actually building the software is a Dao.

[00:05:55] Fabio: that means it's not an incorporated company. It's a group of people that, raised some money, through, Twitter, media. Posts. And then they took that money and they funded a team involving a product manager and some developers to actually build a build out this product. so they're kind of like a software Dow. but down more generally is this new kind of organizational form that is really hard to define because there's so many different ways that you. Structure it, but it's an organization that's blockchain native. It lives on chain and there isn't necessarily an incorporated entity, that, that stands behind it.

[00:06:34] Fabio: But rather it's group of people that have come together decided to pool funds together and use those funds to, do something. Whether it's create a software project, invest in art, et cetera.

[00:06:45] Isotta: so I was checking out your Twitter the other day. I saw that you're quite active there. and I saw a tweet that you recently posted that was, it really resonated with me maybe in a different way than you meant it, you said if you're working on a blockchain or NFT project, make sure to ask yourself whether what you're doing is uniquely enabled by the technology and couldn't be done without it.

[00:07:05] Isotta: If the answer is yes, you're much more likely to be working on something interest. To me that just spoke to this crazy thing that I've been coming back to over and over again, this idea of technology being something that intimidates us because it overshadows our work or Our skill or our own self determination of where our art is heading.

[00:07:27] So.

[00:07:27] Isotta: how do you see this idea of technology being of course, a creative media, but also a tool and a tool that, we can learn and embrace and also use, to, to move forward and also retain independence and not always rely on institutions to, propel careers and develop creatively, professionally, that kind of thing.

[00:07:48] Yeah, the technology it's so multifaceted, right? In some senses, it can feel like you have to use it. And it's it's forcing itself into whatever you're trying to create, but on the other hand, it can also be a libertory force or something that can liberate you or give you more independence from at these traditional institutions.

[00:08:06] and kind of gatekeepers. I've definitely had my ups and downs or I guess my concerns with technology,in my own life. But,I've come to the conclusion that I'm still optimistic about it. And I think that it's possible for it to be something that can be used for net positive impact, both in my personal life and for society.

[00:08:25] I think, Maybe try and take as much of the good and leave the bad. try and find the ways in which the technology can actually help amplify your existing kind of voice and what you're trying to create, without having it, of sculpt what you're doing too much.

[00:08:41] and the nice thing is that.

[00:08:42] Fabio: we live in a world that's full of a lot of different software and a lot of different platforms and a lot of different approaches. you just have to be picky about which ones you engage with and which ones you don't.

[00:08:52] Isotta: I also feel like there's something really interesting about how artists always seem to. Use tools for maybe not necessarily what they were intended to do. and that goes for both physical tools and also I think with technical tools. And it just makes me think about how that's just like the tip of the iceberg in terms of like technology that we can start using and embracing to, accelerate.

[00:09:15] Isotta: Creatively and professionally, rather than just technology is just a marketing tool for me I mean, you've probably heard the saying the medium is the message. and I do believe that, not that's always a hundred percent true, but,it's hard to avoid, or it's hard to ignore the medium,when you're, spreading a particular message.

[00:09:31] Fabio: I think the one thing that, that makes the internet and web three a little bit different in that regard is that,You know, a lot of, a lot of the stuffit's kind of being created, collaboratively and right now by many different people,and there's, on the one hand there might be in, in some people's heads, a very strong kind of like profit motive.

[00:09:50] but I still think that there's a way to kind of leverage it for the good and for what you want it to be and try and avoid maybe the unsavory bits.

[00:09:59] I know you, participate in, online community around the NMT world? So.

[00:10:04] Isotta: What role do you think, discord and Twitter and other online platforms have in creating that kind of global conversation and that kind of community, you know, group think around, NFTs and the kind of evolving crypto arts space.

[00:10:19] and like, what do you find positive about that? And is there anything you think needs to change or needs to be developed in the coming months?

[00:10:27] I mean, there's a whole internet subculture that has sprung up around NFTs. There's all of these NFT memes. Good morning GM that everyone keeps saying and, we're going to make it w GMI. and I think it's really awesome that people from all around the world are able to connect over a shared interest, a shared passion and a lot of it comes back to Wanting to craft a new world.

[00:10:51] there's a lot of overlap between people who are into NFTs and people who are into open Mehta versus right. People who want to create, these new virtual worlds of the future, but where We are independent. We can own things and we're not essentially playing in a walled garden run by a large corporation.

[00:11:08] I think,it's super cool to see these niche communities develop and find each other online. I think maybe the piece that's a little bit more unsettling is, maybe this trend around people using their NFTs as, profile pictures, especially when these NFTs are now worth, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[00:11:28] Fabio: And they're essentially projecting to the world, look at how much money I have or look at, you know, um, what I own. and kind of art becoming a status symbol again, and becoming something that you show off. I'm not a big fan of that. that sort of, part of what I'm seeing in kind of these NFT community.

[00:11:46] Isotta: Yeah, that's really interesting. It makes me think a lot about. Ideas that you were sharing with me previously around the environmental impact of NFTs, in comparison to maybe like environmental impact of the traditional blue chip art market. and I think humans will always be obsessed with status symbols, whether those are physical or digital.

[00:12:03] and I was wondering if you could share your thoughts with us on, you know, this upswing of digital goods and whether you think that's something that's here to stay. And if so, likewhat are the downstream impacts of that?

[00:12:16] yeah, if I had thought a lot about this and realized actually that if people are buying more digital goods, that's actually a net positive for the environment and for the world. if, instead of buying a physical Gucci bag, someone's buying a digital version, that digital version didn't require,any kind of natural resources to be mined out of the ground or from the world.

[00:12:36] Fabio: But instead of. And it only required ones in ones and zeros and electricity. and so am hopeful that actually, if buying digital goods become something that's as satisfying as buying something physical, that it just means a reduction in overall consumption of real Goods. And I think that could be immensely positive for the environment.

[00:12:57] Fabio: Now, a lot of people obviously mentioned the fact that?

[00:13:00] NFTs right now, aren't very green and, and that they're, you know, using a lot of electricity and that's true, but that's just a function of,the fact that right now, most of them are on the Ethereum blockchain and the Ethereum blockchain hasn't switched over yet to, the new consensus process that we'll use a lot less electricity.

[00:13:19] Fabio: So this is something that will be solved soon. I think digital fashion is going to be hugely exciting for anyone who's kind of passionate about fashion. You're no longer constrained by the mediums. Uh, physics in the real world, you're no longer constrained by like, okay. You know, is this, is this actually ergonomic?

[00:13:38] can someone wear this in their day to day life? You know, their avatar can have crazy, outfits and wings and whatever else. and so I think it just opens up a whole new space for fashion designers to explore in terms of clothing,

[00:13:52] Fabio: I'm hoping that yeah, digital goods go mainstream. Why not?

[00:13:56] Isotta: are you hoping to create something in the metaverse in the future? I know you were talking about digital real estate and stuff. I'm so new to all those concepts, but I just find it really cool and exciting a I'm a sculptor.

[00:14:08] Isotta: So the idea of creating sculpture in the metaverse is just, is so cool.

[00:14:11] I mean, I'm also very excited about it. I'm also a bit apprehensive about the direction that it's going, especially with Facebook slash Mehta, trying to kind of own this term and,. push kind of like their walled garden approach. I really want to make sure that we build it right.

[00:14:28] Fabio: that, it's something that's co owned by many different people and not controlled by one large corporation. So I'm very excited about metaverse projects that are working, in the crypto space that have a native token that have tokenized, um, parcels as NFTs, such as crypto voxels and, uh, decentral land. So definitely take a look at those. Um, I think there are some exciting

[00:14:51] Fabio: things happening.

[00:14:54] Fabio: treat sometimes, and you can find me at a five-year burger 1, 2, 3.

[00:15:02] that's my username.

[00:15:03] Fabio: if you're interested in learning more.

[00:15:05] Fabio: checkout movement, generation.io.

[00:15:08] Fabio: And, think what you're doing here with this podcast is super cool and there's so much going on in the space. Um, I'm super excited about generative art in particular. and this whole concept of being able to co-own art and making art more accessible. so definitely take a look at party Dow and art blocks if you're interested in learning more about that

[00:15:29] Isotta: Thank you for listening to art is a podcast for artists. This episode, I'd like to thank Fabio Berger for sharing his expertise and enthusiasm with us.

[00:15:39] Isotta: when you have a moment, please leave. Art is a podcast for artists, a rating and review on apple podcasts. It really helps others find us. You can support the work I do by subscribing wherever you listen and donating to the podcast, the link to do so is in the episode description. also, I really love hearing from you. So please keep reaching out on Instagram at artists podcast or by emailing.

[00:16:01] Isotta: listen@artispodcast.com. Okay. That's it for now. Thanks so much and see you next Wednesday.