Creative Engineering: Generative NFT’s & Horizontal Teams

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Fabio: for movement generation, we're working as a squad and, we're sharing all the products. Evenly, across all the members in the squad, both from the initial sale, as well as any secondary sale royalties that we're going to make.

[00:00:13] I, personally really liked this, kind of set up, I think it's the way of the future. People don't necessarily want to have a boss And kind of the strict hierarchies anymore. and this is kind of, I guess, a more, of egalitarian take on things.

[00:00:27] Isotta: This is Art Is… a podcast for artists where we brainstormed the future of the art world and the creative industries.

[00:00:39] Isotta: First off. Thank you so much to everyone who has donated to the podcast. I really appreciate you supporting my work. If you feel like donating, check out the link in the episode description today, we are continuing our exploration of NFTs with Fabio. A software engineer who is very passionate and experienced in the crypto space.

[00:00:59] in this first half of our conversation, we dive into movement generation a very exciting upcoming generative and Ft project. Fabulous. Working on along with an interdisciplinary team, this kind of team is called a squad and Fabio explains why he likes this collaborative model and why he believes it to be the future of.

[00:01:18] Isotta: I really enjoyed catching up with Fabio and hearing his insights and excitement on an FTS. So I hope this conversation inspires you to investigate the space.

[00:01:27] Fabio: so hi everyone. My name is Fabio Berger. I'm a software engineer. someone who's been working at a lot of different startups most recently in the crypto defy and now NFT space. Yeah, I guess my professional background, involves being a software engineer at air table and at zero X, which is a decentralized exchange project built on Ethereum.

[00:01:52] and right now I'm actually working on a really exciting NFT project, which I can't wait to tell you more about.

[00:01:58] Isotta: so I was wondering, you know, the NFT crypto world. The passion-driven space. How did you get into it? And what kind of projects are you excited?

[00:02:07] Fabio: Yeah, it definitely, stems from my passion around cryptography. and also just this idea of giving more control back to, users and away from larger organizations or companies. came into the space, when Ethereum first launched. And, I was very excited about.

[00:02:26] building actual financial tools on top of Ethereum, things that could allow for co-ownership of real estate and things like that. And I quickly realized though that this was still 2016, it was very early days and we still had to build out some core infrastructure. So I ended up working at Xerox where we did exactly that.

[00:02:44] and I guess my discovery of NFTs was around 2018, 2019. We actually supported an Ft, trading, through zero X protocol at the time, but it was also,very early days. And so most NFTs were more of the collectibles type and not really art. so although I was excited?

[00:03:03] Fabio: about it, maybe not as much as I am now.

[00:03:06] Fabio: And I guess more recently, I, worked with a good friend of mine. Steve Klebanoff on rats.art, which is a, project that allows anyone to deposit any NFT into an art volt and in return, withdraw another art piece. So it was kind like an, a way for artists and creatives to exchange art.

[00:03:27] how did you come to really being interested in art? are you an artist or, what's your background?

[00:03:33] Fabio: Yeah, I'm personally not an artist, most artistic thing that I've done in my past, has been, dancing. I used to be a break dancer. but my interaction with art was actually through a lot of friends of mine who are actually. And seeing a lot of them actually struggled to monetize their art form and make a living out of it.

[00:03:51] I started to become curious about, okay, how can I potentially help them do that? Using NFTs? what does NFTs unlock for creatives that have maybe historically had a hard time monetizing their art?

[00:04:02] I know that you have been working on a really exciting collaborative NFT project. So could you introduce us to that and bring us into your world on how that got started and what the vision behind that.

[00:04:12] so I guess it got started, when I was talking to my artist friends, one of which is a hip hop dancer. and I don't know if you know this, but feel like, any sort of, performance art form is notoriously difficult to monetize, the art that you're creating is sort of a femoral.

[00:04:29] Fabio: It exists for a performance and then it's gone. and so I was talking with her and we were trying to think about, is there something that NFTs could unlock for performance artists that. allow them to monetize their art form, but also potentially amplify, the art that they're creating.

[00:04:44] and at the same time I was talking with a friend of mine, About what do NFTs uniquely enable? what can you do with an NFT that you couldn't do otherwise? And the thing that we kept coming back to was this idea of generative art or generative NFTs. so maybe not a lot of people know yet what a generative.

[00:05:04] is, but it's an art piece, that gets generated at the point in time when it is minted on chain. typically it means there's some sort of, software program that generates final art piece. And, this program takes in some sort of initial value and this value gets generated.

[00:05:22] Fabio: let's say a random number that gets generated on chain when the piece gets minted. and I think that's a super cool concept. This idea of having an art piece be created as soon as it's purchased and having the purchaser, not necessarily. what the piece will look like that.

[00:05:38] Fabio: they'll receive.

[00:05:39] Fabio: And so taking this wanting to help, my artist friend, uh, what we ended up creating is this project called movement generation. And what we're doing is we're,creating the world's first generative music video slash choreography video. and so we're going to be releasing 500 NFTs and each one is going to be a unique choreography, which gets generated at the point in time where you purchase the NFT.

[00:06:04] Every video is going to be to the same song. And so what we're getting,my friend Pitino, who who's the hip hop dancer to do is actually create multiple kind of master choreographies to the same song. And then what we're going to do is actually slice up all of those choreographies and create new permutations of choreographies out of it.

[00:06:23] Fabio: So that means maybe taking the first piece of the first choreography. Second piece from the third choreography and then the fourth or the third piece from the fourth choreography. And, we figured out a way to actually stitch these together, such that they all look as if they're originals. so you can't tell by looking at it that they've been stitched together.

[00:06:44] Fabio: And I think that's where the magic happens. everyone's going to receive a unique choreography that looks like the original. but what we've done now is we've taken. Let's say the four choreographies that she's actually produced and out of it, we've made 500

[00:06:58] Fabio: so we're actually filming her, dancing the choreography. So it's real life footage. there's a few constraints about how she has to design the choreography, such that we can stitch them together nicely. and we're going to be filming her in front of a green screen. And then placing her inside of digital spaces.

[00:07:15] Fabio: And for the digital spaces, we're actually working with a 3d digital artist. Who's going to be, producing, these different scenes where we can place her. and so, that's another piece that's of generative, of the final videos is that not all of the videos are going to be, situated in the same location.

[00:07:31] and we're going to be able to also randomly. The locations in which she's dancing. and I think that's pretty exciting. That's so cool. I love that. So each of the 500 will be unique,

[00:07:42] Fabio: Correct. Yes. in more aspects than one. and I think what's been really exciting about working on this project has just been, working with so many artists and so many people who are really good at what they do. And so our team is actually, or our squad is made up of me, the software engineer, a 3d digital artist, it hip hop dancer.

[00:08:03] Fabio: A musician slash producer and a cinematographer. and we're organized in a squad, which is also a new sort of concept, similar to Dows, et cetera. there was a thought piece that came out in the blog by other internet kind of describing what is a squad, but a squad is essentially a small group of people that come together and try and.

[00:08:24] Fabio: Help each other. And so that, could mean sharing information that could be collaborating together on a project. And what makes a squad kind of different from maybe the classical way that we've organized ourselves is that there's much less hierarchy. it's much more that everyone brings their expertise and their specialization to the table.

[00:08:42] Fabio: And they all kind of share equally in whatever comes out of that project. And so for movement generation, as an example, we're working as a squad and, we're sharing all the products. Evenly, across all the members in the squad, both from the initial sale, as well as any secondary sale royalties that we're going to make.

[00:09:02] I personally really liked this, set up, I think it's the way of the future. People don't necessarily want to have a boss And kind of the strict hierarchies anymore. and this is kind of, I guess, a more ,of an egalitarian take on things.

[00:09:16] I was wondering, where are you presenting this body of work?

[00:09:18] Isotta: on a specific platform? Are you doing it independently? so that we know where to look forward in the future, but also just maybe, you know, an insider perspective on what are the platforms of merit right now?

[00:09:29] Fabio: so there's many different, NFT marketplaces where artists are now publishing their work. most of them kind of have like a generic, way of, Creating a new NFT, and none of them actually, fit with what we're trying to do, because what we're trying to do is a little bit different.

[00:09:44] and so it required writing custom smart contracts and also a custom website. It'll be@movementgeneration.io, our own custom website, where there will be a gallery. And you can see all the different pieces that have been minted, you'll be able to mint new piece.

[00:09:59] but all of the NFTs that get generated there are compatible with open sea,and other marketplaces. So you'll be able to also see them there. I'm a pretty big fan of foundation. super rare. I think they do a good job, then there's also our blocks for, generative art specifically.

[00:10:16] there's definitely a really cool platforms out there, if you're doing something more bespoke or something a little bit more, custom, then you might still have to, roll your own website.

[00:10:25] Isotta: Cool. So it's just like DIY every phase, new team, new process, new platform, new marketplace. That's awesome.

[00:10:33] exactly. I guess that's what it means to be on the bleeding edge.

[00:10:37] When you talk about these kinds of projects, how do you build the right kind of team? Because of course you need to have a very strong technical focus, butwhat's your experience being working hand in hand with interdisciplinary creatives, but also other people from technical backgrounds, has that been really a rewarding experience?

[00:10:57] Isotta: Could you, you know, bring us into. side of things.

[00:10:59] I think it's amazing. first of all, being able to find people whose work you admire and then of reach out to them. and see if they're interested in collaborating. it's been a lot of fun find people who are really talented, a, in a different domain or even in the same one and then, be able to kind of pitch them on working together.

[00:11:17] Fabio: And, and I think, the kind of egalitarian setup really appeals to a lot of people. there's quite a few people who have also been burned in the past, you know, either they've got. Maybe a rotten deal or, haven't been treated fairly. and so, yeah, think it just kind ofsets the right tone when you get on the phone with someone and you're like, Hey, this is how we're going to be doing it, we're splitting what we make evenly across the team.

[00:11:40] so, you know, they immediately know that, this is not, something that's trying to take advantage of them. but really this is something that's trying to lift them up, help them stack Yves and also, potentially earn money into the future beyond the initial sale.

[00:11:53] an interesting piece to NFTs, which is the secondary sale, fees that you can earn. and what that ends up being is like an income stream that exists well into the future. and it also. Make sure that the original artists or the original creators of a piece get rewarded, according to what their work.

[00:12:12] Fabio: Is eventually valued at right. think there's so many examples of artists that during their lifetime, they were always poor. know, they didn't make any money. I think Vincent van, Gogh's a good example. He sold all of his pieces for very little, and now they're worth so much, but, him and his family and his descendants, aren't going to see any of that.

[00:12:29] but with the sort of secondary sale royalties, there's an opportunity for each piece that you create. to continue to, earn you, dividends or to continue to pay out well into the future. it makes art more like equity and less like salary. It's more like equity and less like revenue.

[00:12:48] if that makes any sense, each piece is something that can continue to bring in income into the future. And I think That's very.

[00:12:54] something you were just saying that I think really resonated was this idea that. just even reaching out to people you admire, whose work you like. I personally have started doing that so much over the last 18 months and I found it so rewarding.

[00:13:06] do you have any advice for our listeners here who maybe. Not super familiar with tech or crypto world yet, and are interested in finding out more, like, do you think we could just reach out to people? Like, what's your experience been? how could we, you know, help others kind of make those connections as well.

[00:13:24] Isotta: If they're not necessarily already connected in the space obviously a warm intro is always easier and super helpful, but I don't think that it's always necessary. I think being genuineness is really important when you reach out to someone. and,and I think the other thing to remember is just that there's almost nothing you can lose.

[00:13:42] sure. You might lose a little bit of time with your outreach, in the worst case, they don't reply. and you need to, keep looking or reach out to more people. yeah, I think that's how I reached out to you.

[00:13:55] Fabio: That's true.

[00:13:55] Isotta: Yeah, it's so nice also to hear, that transparency and honesty and kindness are really just the tools that you need. And if you have those anything's possible. Really?

[00:14:05] interested in learning more.

[00:14:09] Fabio: Uh, checkout movement, generation.io. what what's still kind of up in the air, but right now I'm going that initial drop, maybe working on one or two more with other, in different parts of the world them to, to leverage FTS for their art form.Yeah, me on Twitter. Uh, sometimes, uh, on at a five-year burger 1, 2, 3.

[00:14:32] Fabio: Um, username. you're doing here with this podcast is super cool and there's so much going on in the space. Um, excited about generative art in particular. concept of being able to co-own art and art more accessible. Um,

[00:14:46] Isotta: Thank you for listening to art is a podcast for artists. This episode, I'd like to thank Fabio Berger for sharing his expertise and enthusiasm with us. in the second half of our conversation, Fabio and I

[00:14:59] Isotta: returned to the theme of NFT curation.

[00:15:02] Isotta: First introduced to us in episodes. Digital Renaissance decoding NFTs Stay tuned to hear part two of our conversation Coming later on in season three, In that episode, we really unpack the premise of art is season three artists leveraging tech, exploring how technology is a net positive for creatives while brainstorming, how to best build meaningful online.

[00:15:25] Isotta: when you have a moment, please leave. Art Is… a podcast for artists, a rating and review on apple podcasts. It really helps others find us. You can support the work I do by subscribing wherever you listen and donating to the podcast, the link to do so is in the episode description. also, I really love hearing from you. So please keep reaching out on Instagram at artists podcast or by emailing.

[00:15:46] Isotta: listen@artispodcast.com. Okay. That's it for now. Thanks so much and see you next Wednesday.