Fine Art International Management the Artist’s MBA

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Sixtine: I have 35 years experience in the industry and I've been to all major art fairs on a regular basis. I think I've not missed out Basel once.

[00:00:14] Isotta: This is Art Is… a podcast for artists where we brainstormed the future of the art world and the creative industry. Thank you for tuning in each week for conversations with innovative creatives, art world professionals, emerging artists and leaders from beyond the art world in the tech and startup space.

[00:00:34] Isotta: I started this podcast to brainstorm ideas and solutions for the future art world here I've been seeking out professional agency, expansive interdisciplinary opportunity, innovative digital product. along with alternative business models and more these themes have been top of mind for all of us art students, recent grads, emerging artists and early career creatives.

[00:00:55] Isotta: Today, we are closing out season two. I guess I'm still used to the academic structure of semesters and feel that September is for new beginnings. So I felt that this episode with the wonderful 16 Crutchfield was a perfect bookend to art is season two Sixtine is the program manager for the fine art international MBA, a business graduate degree in finance.

[00:01:16] Isotta: From Geneva business school in Switzerland, I was particularly keen and excited to speak with her because last year as an emerging artist and recent graduate, I had little business knowledge and was feeling very insecure about the professional side of my art practice.

[00:01:31] Isotta: Because at art school, we never discussed business management and professional development, entrepreneurship skills and leadership, or the finances and legal implications of your art practice. but now as I ventured into the art world and also looked beyond it into the tech and startup spaces, I began seeing the value of getting an MBA.

[00:01:50] Isotta: So when I heard about 16 in her work developing the fine art international management MBA, it was a perfect fit. So I hope you enjoy hearing about what a finer MBA is and come away from this conversation with a little bit more knowledge and confidence on all things, business, art world, and art market.

[00:02:09] Now, before we begin, when you have a moment, I really would appreciate you leaving a rating. And review of art is in apple podcasts. It really helps other creatives find us. And if you feel like making a financial contribution to the show, you can donate through the link in the episode description.

[00:02:26] Isotta: Thanks so much.

[00:02:27] Isotta: here's 16 sharing a little bit about her professional background in the art world.

[00:02:33] Sixtine: Well, I'm an artist story and I graduated from the university of Denver with a knots, bachelor degree of history of art and history of the theater, actually in a major called mass communications. And after that, I returned to my hometown, Geneva and Switzerland, and worked for.

[00:02:51] Sixtine: Approximately 10 years with gallery young cuisine and gallery. And Chris also had a gallery in New York, so it got me to travel. it was also the very early stages of the management of the marina Picasso collection. So we had organized a traveling exhibition, which took us to Australia, to Japan, to Munich and Venice.

[00:03:13] Sixtine: And, as well as the other works of art, which we had on display at the gallery. So for me, it was really, working in a museum straight from the day one, but with the entrepreneurship and the commercial aspects and the adrenaline that one gets when one sells a major piece of art.

[00:03:30] Sixtine: And then went into when the exhibition took me to Australia. I absolutely fell in love with the continent. So I decided I wanted to come back and, the ICCA, which was the, Company that was organizing the visiting exhibitions. asked me back in 1988 for the bicentennial of the country. And there, I got to learn all about, Aboriginal art and, really wanted to stay on.

[00:03:54] Sixtine: So I'm left the ICCA and stayed on for one year and renewed my visa. And then I eventually in Darwin, met my now ex, but then future husband, and so decided to stay in, stayed in Australia, working for the Australia council for 11 years. And then, we eventually came back to Switzerland. Where I worked for a bank, I could have gone straight back to Yonkers years, gallery, but, decided I wanted to do something a little bit different.

[00:04:21] Sixtine: And so I worked in the bank where we actually set up the one of the very first, or at least in Geneva was the first, art advisory department for the very high. ultra high net worth clients that we had, and it wasn't so much about art lending. In those days, it was really offering that extra service to help clients manage their own connection.

[00:04:42] Sixtine: Maybe buy more pieces, sell their pieces, et cetera, have them, cataloged and,maybe restorative restoration needed, it was needed, et cetera. And, when the bank was, eventually taken over by another bank, the, that service actually died. And I went back to Yonkers year as the manager of the gallery.

[00:05:02] Sixtine: And as such, we exhibited the Moscow world. Fine art fair. Where I jumped ship again and, went to, manage the, Moscow world finance fair. We then developed the Salsburg world finance fair together with a company called art culture students. And, from there, I then eventually developed, an art fair and jewelry fair in, backhoe and as are by John.

[00:05:25] Sixtine: And now we're doing collaborative work with Azure nav, which is the Geneva based art fair, which is becoming quite, renowned internationally. So we've got, Moscow, Monaco, Geneva, and possibly back home for art and jewelry. and that's where I'm at now. And then I was, while I was at the bank, I admitted to say that, I didn't know much about finance or banking or anything.

[00:05:48] So, um, actually sponsored me to join Geneva business school for. A certificate and finance, which went on for a whole year. It was a full-time course. and then I owed the bank two years of, of payback time, but I really enjoyed the course. And so when the school you know, celebrated its 25th anniversary, I was asked to organize the event and unfortunately that was in 2020.

[00:06:12] Sixtine: So the event didn't take place for obvious reasons. And so I decided to. Reward the school, if you like with a little bit of my own, input and knowledge, and I wanted to share the expertise. So I designed this MBA program for business people, to just know a little bit more about the art world. And it turns out that the students who are applying right now.

[00:06:34] Sixtine: Okay. Already from the art world, they're either aspiring artists or they're just graduates from the major art and design schools. Or there are people who also own galleries or lawyers who would like to specialize in art. So it's really about the business side of the arts industry, and it has seven different aspects, but it goes from history of art to logistics, to museology, to entrepreneurship, to, Art lending to art finance.

[00:07:01] So, um,it's really the back office. If you like of the art world.

[00:07:05] Sixtine: it's an MBA course. It is designed for professionals who all have a bachelor's degree already and who can speak English.

[00:07:17] I think that because it is a bit of a unique, um, syllabus and that possibly students who are graduating from the major art schools around the world, feel that they don't have that business acumen.

[00:07:30] the courses designed to help them Access the commercial side of their work quicker. I'm interested as well. I'm surprised, but it sounds very good. I've asked the people that have already signed up, some of them is because they wanted to come to move to Switzerland. Now that it's online, of course, it's, it's a much wider student base that will be accessing the courses.

[00:07:50] I think also that for example, lawyers, the art law foundation was done in Geneva. And I think more and more now with,Copyrights coming up, et cetera, you know,after the second world war looting, et cetera, et cetera, there's a lot more restitution going on.

[00:08:05] Sixtine: As we know, there's a lot more fake and, real artwork being found out in various museums. there's a lot more forensics going on. the technology has really improved and I think governance is very much needed. And so. The art clause side of things is going to be very busy, I think, in the future.

[00:08:22] Sixtine: So there is a big interest in that people are aware. The other thing is that more and more people are buying art as an investment and they need to get a return on that investment. So the banks also need to have a look at the tools that can be put in place so that people can use their artists collateral.

[00:08:38] Sixtine: But I think basically people who know about art are aware of this, at this stage. And it'll take a little bit longer for them. People outside of the art industry to realize that's why I think we're getting art savvy people sign up for the course.

[00:08:52] an MBA program is primarily for professionals who are wishing to. expand their network. And that's perfectly understandable now because of, COVID not really being over yet. We've decided to go online as a February, 2022, which takes away a little bit of the networking, but, I'm going to do my best to activate it and to make it more interactive.

[00:09:17] Sixtine: I've. webinars, which can be seen on YouTube on the Geneva business school, YouTube channel, if you type fame, F a I M you will find my webinars. So I intend to do more of those, but the other, Solution that we found is that we will attend and we will meet all our students who will join us from around the world we'll select four major art meets in the art calendar.

[00:09:40] Isotta: 16 is so transparent about how the art world works. and as we all know too well, networking and personal relationships are paramount to success in the space, 16 has an interesting approach to this, instead of trying to fundamentally change the system, she's just opening up her personal network and pouring it into this fine art MBA.

[00:09:59] Isotta: She has personally pre-vetted or worked with the roster of professors and experts leading this graduate course. 16 is also really excited about the innovation happening in the digital art space and the role of emerging tech and crypto in the art industry. and rather than seeing one era replace another, she argues it's about combining and collaborating, developing expertise and fundamentally helping people get jobs and expand the art world to be more inclusive, international and transparent.

[00:10:29] Sixtine: I do happen to know a lot of people and then having worked with the Moscow world, finance fair, it's allowed me as well to really connect on a personal level with all the media worldwide.

[00:10:39] so we've got the media behind us. Then, of course the galleries I know because AI flirted with them so that they would come and exhibit in Moscow and backhoe and all that, but also know them because when you work in a gallery, such as Yan cushy, it's a small world. So you end up meeting a lot of people.

[00:10:54] And then of course, on a personal level, I'm interested with artists. So I've visited many artists studios. I go to as many museums and I can only encourage all of you artists and non-artists to go and see as many exhibitions as you can. It's very important to keep your library going as well. Look at art books I've been able with this, MBA, like everybody's been you know, very much enthused and really supporting me, for the finance.

[00:11:20] Sixtine: I've got Andrea yanno from Deloitte Adriano. has been running the art, art market. Report every year for TFF. he also works a lot with art Basel, so he really follows the art market. Then I've worked with major event managers on the cultural scene, such as nanny Venga. Who's going to be teaching event management, together with Lorenzo Rudolph. he's one of the founders of art Basel, and then he imagined, Art Basel, Miami. And he also developed unlimited. And I know he's on all sorts of other projects. So all these people, I will make sure. That, they're supporting the program. So they'll be there with us other, as guest speakers, as professors, or as speakers on the webinars. And, you know, whenever our students, are ready to embrace the art world or whenever these people look for, new stuff, they'll be, they won't be looking at our pool of students.

[00:12:10] Sixtine: So they've already said so, so I mean, there'll be opportunities when you guys graduate.

[00:12:14] are there similar programs out there? Yes, there are. but they're very specialized in their niches. So for example, in Italy, there's several programs, but they're either hands-on or much about restoration heritage, then there are obviously similar programs in England, If you look at the Sotheby's and Christie's programs, first of all, they're not MBAs. You end up with certificates and you have to take a whole lot of them to get the complete picture. Of course, there's the Courtauld Institute. There's the echo move in Paris. But again, they're more history of art then actual artists.

[00:12:50] Sixtine: in America, as far as I know, they're more into the legal stuff. There's a lot of art law going on in America. again, with the forensics, with the FBI being involved with restitution, with,looking for lost art, et cetera, So really a program which encompasses all of those things, and even logistics, storage, installation, packing, handling, insurance, all those things. We will cover, museology people, movement, security,how to add to. Had to set up an inventory, had to do a report, had to do a condition report.

[00:13:21] Sixtine: All those things I don't think are covered in any other programs. So I really do believe we're the first. and I'm glad that we are in a way, because I hope that other people will,maybe develop a little bit further than your existing programs that they have.

[00:13:34] Isotta: I really appreciated sixteen's enthusiasm and her thoughts on the future of the art world.

[00:13:41] Sixtine: I think right now, the entire, world governance is looking for more transparency is looking to use the technology that we've got. Is looking to,Governance because it's really non-existent.

[00:13:53] Sixtine: So an art world up until now has been considered a little bit of a pink and really for the specialists, just as much as the technology side of things. I mean,to me, Digital art was mainly a thing for geeks. within a couple of weeks, it's become a thing for everybody to have a go at.

[00:14:10] Sixtine: So I think It's great news. And I think we will go in that direction. I don't think digital now is going to go away. I don't think that crypto is, are going to go away. I don't think that NFTs are going to go away. And what I find fascinating is that very quickly, the major traditional actors have embraced it, whether it's museums, auction houses.

[00:14:28] That I think is the future. And I think it's very exciting and we'll also cover that in the NBA, but I think if you have sound training and the traditional, as well as the Neagle, as well as the financial moving to the digital and the crypto is going to be.

[00:14:42] But then again, if you don't have the people, the traditional art world keeping pace, that generation of collectors will quickly bypass the art world. So that's why you need to be trained in those modern technologies.

[00:14:55] Sixtine: it's not just art specialists in the art world anymore.

[00:14:58] Sixtine: It's as I said before, like the geeks are getting into it or what I used to call geeks and they're into it. So it's art people, it's artists, but it's also technology experts. and it's going to be bankers pretty soon as well. And I think also lawyers, because as I mentioned the gun. However, I don't think it's going to replace the old, traditional, physical art side of things, because if you think about it, late 19th century photography came in before that, if you wanted to poach it or your loved ones or of your children or of yourself, you have to sit in an artist studio.

[00:15:32] first of all, indoors, then a little bit later outdoors,and you had people like Gainsborough, whatever, doing portraits, then all of a sudden people could go into a studio and you had a guy that we had a little tripod with a box. a black cloth over his head and a flashlight that exploded.

[00:15:49] Sixtine: And then you had your, portrait on paper. And so the older guys would say, this is an art. And then, to go on a new bit quick and history, then you, all of a sudden you had from photography, you went to video. And then people would say, yeah, but photography's not really art because it's duplication, you can do as many as you like with a negative.

[00:16:06] Sixtine: And then now with the digital, and then in the seventies video, wasn't really odd. It was more like branding and marketing. you know, and then, Andy walls said marketing art was also art, so it's all changing and we've always had this sort of thing. It's not art and the traditional art remained.

[00:16:21] Sixtine: And so I think now with the digital, it's the same, it's just, it's a new. Tool that can be used. That is interactive. That can be used in many ways. You can have your super world and your metaphysical world. You can have your own room, your own exhibition. You can sell NFTs to it or not. I mean, they're all new technologies that are basically helping people communicate in a different way.

[00:16:43] but it will just be an additional, type of art. I think of course COVID. allowed us to now all communicate online, which allowed us to meet people that probably would have never met.

[00:16:56] Sixtine: Otherwise. I'vemet you through the network and through the internet. I've been running all those webinars and I see people signing up that I, would have never come across otherwise. And I think this interactivity is interesting because we've had all the magazines have gone digital a long time before COVID happened.

[00:17:13] But there was no interaction. Like we could read magazines, but it doesn't mean that I could communicate with the readers. I've also found out through Phillips who mentioned, and then Christie's and Sotheby's are following suit. They're not going to make catalogs anymore before a catalog was. Now you go to art net, it's all digital art native also said that they're also working now on the crypto sales. So I think COVID has actually accelerated the digital.

[00:17:36] one of the interesting points with that and with COVID is that museum started to, film or do little videos or somehow digitalize all their, artwork, which was also in their sellers or in their archives or in their volts.

[00:17:50] Sixtine: And that I think is a great thing because it means that they can now organize exhibitions, which people can view of artworks that would have otherwise never seen the light of day. So I think that's a very good thing, but I also think that, and we have a very good school here called EPF fell. It's in Lausanne, which is about a hundred kilometers away from Geneva and at EPFs there's a lady called Sarah Kennedy.

[00:18:11] he was running the museology department and she's very much into augmented reality. And so she does totally immersive exhibitions. And so you can wear the glasses, but now I think the technology is such that you don't even need to wear the glasses and I've actually not experienced it. But I know that at the gall ballet they've had many exhibitions and I there's one going on about Vango right now, but there was one on Clint a little bit earlier.

[00:18:36] Before COVID actually where people go in and it's just like a 360 experience where, you walk into the painting and you're walking on the floor and you look up to the ceiling and it's claimed all around you. It's van Gogh all around you. I'm not sure that's a gimmick.

[00:18:51] Sixtine: I think that's also attracting people who would not otherwise go to the museum. The way that museums are now exhibiting half, they've just become more modern and more attractive to the younger generations.

[00:19:02] Sixtine: Then again, he's or die. I know that you're a sculptor and I, myself, I can never help myself, but touching sculpture. So I think there's still that touchy that, Yeah, that sensation will not be replaced by a digital.

[00:19:14] Now, the only thing I can encourage people who are listening to do, if they're interested in the MBA program, please go to Geneva business schools, website it's GB. G e.com or go to the YouTube channel and you'll find a lot more information. I can only say that from the professionals that have approached for the program, they all said that they would, offer opportunities, work opportunities to our graduates.

[00:19:42] Sixtine: And they were all very grateful of my initiatives of creating this program because they said at last we're going to have people who know what they're talking about when we first employed them. I can only encourage anyone who's interested in the art world, but also collectors and people who work with curators because I'm sure it's going to help them improve much faster or understand the collections much faster and perhaps avoid mistakes.

[00:20:08] Isotta: the arts world is an odd industry and yeah, we need more people in it. welcome. Thank you for listening to season two, episode 14 of art is a podcast for artists. This episode, I'd like to thank 16 Crutchfield for sharinginsights on the art market and future of the art industry, along with introducing us to the MBA in fine art, international management at Geneva business school.

[00:20:32] Isotta: But I would also like to thank you for subscribing and listening to Art Is… a podcast for aartists season two. If you missed an episode, feel free to go back and check out all 21 episodes of season one and two of the podcast. And please share your thoughts with me by reaching out on Instagram or sending an email to listen at artists, podcast.com.

[00:20:51] Lots of exciting things are coming up and I can't wait to share the news with you. So be sure to subscribe here on your pod player of choice and follow our days on Instagram, to be the first to know. And I thank you again for your continued support.

[00:21:05] Isotta: I can't begin to describe how much I've loved making this podcast and how much it's changed my life. Okay. That's it for now. Thanks and see you soon.