‘FairArtFair’ the App for Artists

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Stacie: it's really has been organic. we've had to develop tools as a gallerist, as a collector and as an artist, every single tool you're going to find on the app we needed to have as gallery as collectors and as an artist. So there, the tools are grounded in extraordinary experience and need.

[00:00:20] Stacie: so hands on research. and then what we understand about exhibiting work and sharing work with collectors and curators that too. So it's really a mirror of what's going on here. It's a kind of digital mirror, and, and also this amazing opportunity to expand our capacities, to support artists and discover artists

[00:00:42] Isotta: This is Art Is… a podcast for artists where we visualize the future of the art world and the creative industries. This season, we are revisiting the topics and ideas introduced in season one through conversations with emerging artists, creative change-makers and leaders. From beyond the art realm and the tech industry design world and startup space.

[00:01:08] The mission of art is, has been to encourage emerging artists, students, and early career creatives to seek out possible futures for the art world. One where our creative ambitions and professional needs are met. Part of this mission is recognizing the power and value of our stories and experiences.

[00:01:26] Isotta: Not only for our own creative and professional growth, but for our collective community development today, I'm speaking with Stacey McCormick, London based artist, and two time founder of unit one gallery workshop and the brand new art app fair art fair. Stacy takes us into the world of fair art, fair and artist centered community and digital platform.

[00:01:47] Isotta: Where you can enhance your creative practice, carried an exhibition, build your art collection

[00:01:53] Isotta: or just experience. Stand out. Peer validated work all with 0% commission on purchases. This soon to be live subscription-based app is a circular economy where all funds go directly into supporting the entire creative company. Stacey's mission to give artists and collectors more agency is inspirational and exciting.

[00:02:16] We delve into the specifics of the subscription business model and how she funded the apps development, the cross-pollination of her work as an artist, gallerist and curator. And of course the apps, awesome modalities and many functions. I hope you enjoy this episode and learn as much as I did.

[00:02:33]

[00:02:34] Stacie: I'm Stacie McCormick. I'm the director of unit one gallery works up in the Sounders. Sarah aren't there.

[00:02:39] Stacie: I was 10 years old. I was in the back of our big station wagon and family of six. And I drew in my little sketchbook. A barn. And I said to my mom, one day, I'm going to have a barn that's huge and lots and lots of people can make art in it. And it's really that barn and the strange sets of circumstances that allowed me to get this space were just incredible. because I got it, it was rough. There was no electricity, there was nothing, it was just an old Travis Perkins, which is a builder's merchants. and. In building it out one day arrived.

[00:03:08] Stacie: I kind of looked at it and went, oh my God, it's the barn because it's exactly barn shaped. so that's two floors and has these huge volumes. And, the one end of the barn is all glass. So it's very bright and summit and, um, Really, as most things in my life, the cart was before the horse, I got this space and it was like, now?

[00:03:26] Stacie: what do I do?

[00:03:27] and I had been running some residencies in the states, knew I wanted to give space and time to artists didn't know exactly how I didn't know, how it would unfold. But, basically did that set up working with one of the residents that had been working with us in the states. the initial show was a collaboration between the two of us. And then we had the studio working upstairs and it really unfolded on that level. And it just started attracting amazing artists and amazing people with great ideas.

[00:03:56] Stacie: And. We were lucky to have, Griffin gallery and the residency of program around the corner from us, which really attracted great people, was sad to see that go when it did.

[00:04:06] Matthew Gibson who spent a long friend, was just great. And so it was, back Pella Frye. Who's a really great curator. She. Brought people here. So we had this little hub going on, and it just grew out of that really. It grew out of it and attracting people because it's a great space. I mean, if you start with a great space, you can attract great people.

[00:04:24] Stacie: and then we developed the upstairs and turned thatinto the solo residency studio. that really kind of was the game changer for us. And then I looked at it and it just was a beautiful studio about, Okay.

[00:04:36] Stacie: we'll do an open call because people do open calls and didn't know how to do an open call. and by then, kind of really started to define this. Wonderful three months. so the residency program we run and I thought we'd get like five little lady water colors.

[00:04:52] maybe one good artist and the decision would be easy and we'd just have great artists here. But the, the response was overwhelming. huge number of artists, really great caliber. decision-making process is so daunting. and so based on that, we kind of turned around and said, we need another residency program.

[00:05:12] Stacie: And we developed the radical residency program. and so that's 10 artists downstairs and they set up studios work for a month. And then We'll curate an exhibit the worst. So that's exactly what's happening right now. We've got the two residency shows in house, and it's kind of my favorite. Moment when you have this kind of 12 artists working in house, and then we have the exhibition time We really want the public to see and working artists practices and, filter through that and ask questions. So that's the gallery, that's the, you know, this, the experience that we're coming on six years with, I think it's 185 artists.

[00:05:46] generally we do 25 to 30 residencies a year. and over the COVID years, because we did the final net over experience that we got to know you through. I think it's hundred and 42, students just in the final, not over, experience.

[00:06:01] if this sounds familiar, as Stacy is talking about final, not over again,

[00:06:05] Isotta: An exhibition that I participated in and took place at her gallery unit one gallery workshop in London. We discussed this exhibition in episode one of season two. Check that out, to learn more about the show and hear insights from, for emerging artists and recent art school grads.

[00:06:22] Stacie: So lots and lots. I mean, it's just, it's an amazing turnover of people and artists here. and experiences with also collectors and curators.

[00:06:29]

[00:06:29] Isotta: What I found really interesting was how each of the features in the fair art fair app grew out of Stacy's experience, running her gallery, curating exhibitions, and being an artist herself. I really appreciated Stacey's insights and reflections

[00:06:44] Isotta: exploring creative business models is a recurring theme that we've investigated throughout season one. And season two of this podcast,

[00:06:52] Stacie: five years to build a brand. And once we build the brand, we will be able to attract the funding we need. And I can tell you that almost to the day we got the funding from the outs council, almost on our five-year anniversary.

[00:07:06] Stacie: I do know, I think about the London art market is that it's not very friendly to new galleries. I mean, you just, if you're new people don't know what you are or what you are, you have to build a reputation. So I think we did that. I think we successfully built a reputation and a brand, and with, public funding, we got, it was this validation of our ability to really support and understand what great artists, and then beyond that we wanted to.

[00:07:34] Stacie: Continue to find a way to enrich and thrive without exploding the artists' practices. So the 50 50 split that's necessary for galleries because of rent and overheads and many, many artists and gallery relationships prosper on that model. so I'm never particularly negative about.

[00:07:56] Stacie: it, but I wonder.

[00:07:58] Stacie: And I asked myself for many years, is there a way to support artists without having to do that? And a long time, I couldn't answer that question. So the app and its subscription model suddenly said we could alleviate that. It meant that every single person subscription is a contribution to keeping each other thriving.

[00:08:16] Love the explanation of the finite games versus the infinite game. So what we've always been interested in the gallery and now with the app is to keep on going. I'm definitely not the person that's going to run away. Yacht and not to say I wouldn't love and invitations, but I'm, I'm here every day, mostly seven days a week, because if I'm not working with the artists, I'm working on my practice.

[00:08:45] and so the finite game is take the profit out and walk away. The infinite game is that all you do is you keep it running, you keep it going. And so I'm very, very interested in having enough funding to keep it going. So the subscription model it's really well known almost. I mean, banking's going to subscription.

[00:09:04] Stacie: Everything is turning to the subscription model. It's a easy math to understand. and it doesn't take a lot. It doesn't take a lot of subscribers to keep us going. So it just made perfect sense. And then we could do what will be and is getting a lot of press, as zero commission, environment.

[00:09:22] and that's really unprecedented. and it's sprayed. It's, you know, it is counting on numbers and subscribers and popularity. and that proof will be in the coming year to see if that gets the attention. But I have to say, you know, if you're an art lover and you find a work of art, you want, your subscription will be made with one purchase, you will have saved to that.

[00:09:45] Stacie: by having a direct relationship with an artist and buying work without a commission. and I find that through.

[00:09:50] Maybe to go back a little bit. How about you introduce us to the history of fair, fair and how it grew out of the work that you have been doing over the last five, six.

[00:10:00] Stacie: Yeah. So, so. Five or six years ago, I bought the URL. and initially when I was thinking about, I think it was around freeze time, and I was thinking about these, kind of collateral art fairs. And I think it was maybe on 16. It was the last year that they were there and it was such a good art fair.

[00:10:21] Stacie: And I was so sad to see it close. And I, I think really when I bought the URL, it was with a art fair in mind, literally to develop,an art show that was run and fulfilled by artists only. and as the idea fleshed out over time, I think what principally happened is I journaled, I guess that's the right word, but I drafted more and more manifested all the time.

[00:10:46] Stacie: And over those five years just kept coaxing the idea. And as you know, with all that we had going on here, there was very, very seldom the time to dedicate to developing it.

[00:10:57] Stacie: But then once we knew we wanted to make a digital platform and we spelled out the funding for it, it really became, similar, but not exactly to many of the apps that are out there in terms of tools. You know, we have all these apps, there's apps for sales and there's apps with tools, but there isn't one that has both.

[00:11:15] Stacie: and so that was what formed the thinking about fair or fair is, but it could be really a community. When we got the funding to develop it, I went back into all my notes and pulls and printed all my notes over those sort of four years. in order to craft what it was going to end up being. And I had meetings with really great industry leaders to talk about it and what it could be. so in those were all kind of, I would call it, opportunistic or casual research over all those years.and as a coincidence, my husband was developing an app. It's not a good idea how they recommend do not have both partners developing apps, but, they are developing an app for a community kind of concept.

[00:11:58] Stacie: And so the community became a buzzword in the house. And I realized that really what we've done here at the gallery is we had built a committee. We built an amazingly committed community of artists that understood what it is to be supported. and that then it made perfect sense, philosophically, but also, in terms of building on what we understood here, we could continue to support artists with this amazing platform.

[00:12:25] Stacie: And then I think tons and tons of research about how apps make money really, and how apps are self-supporting and how the business model can work. and that took a lot of, I think, a lot of bravery and a lot of podcast, actually, I have listened to more tech development podcasts than one should possibly imagine, but I have, and they've been really helpful and informative.

[00:12:47] so it's really has been organic. we've had to develop tools as a gallerist, as a collector and as an artist, every single tool you're going to find on the app we needed to have as gallery as collectors and as an artist. So there, the tools are grounded in extraordinary experience and need.

[00:13:08] so. hands on research. and then what we understand about exhibiting work and sharing work with collectors and curators that too. So it's really a mirror of what's going on here. It's a kind of digital mirror, and, and also this amazing opportunity to expand our capacities, to support artists and discover artists

[00:13:30] Isotta: Could you tell us a little bit about the specifics of what is, on the app, and its features.

[00:13:35] Stacie: the way we speak of it is, you know, the art world doesn't exist without each other. So, you know, an artist without an art lover. You know, you need each other and artists without a curator, exhibitions don't happen. so all those individuals they need each other. And we felt to create a kind of transparent environment for them to inhabit would be perfect.

[00:13:54] so there are customized subscriptions. So as an art level, You're allowed and total privacy to catalog your collection. Keep track of all the art you have. You will have eyes on the visible arena of artists on the platform so that you can discover new artists will gamify some capacity to discover artists without any curation.

[00:14:17] Stacie: There'll be all kinds of really wonderful, art lover experiences on the app and the app. What people don't understand is when you arrive at the app, there'll be all kinds of exhibitions and artists. day one. So most apps have to populate after launch, but we're pre-populating, which is what's going on now.

[00:14:33] so that's the kind of art lover. It's a private area. We will develop the capacity for them to allow their collections, to be seen, perhaps create exhibitions with their collection on the app. So that's one of the things about the app is that we can continue to adapt based on the user's needs.

[00:14:49] curator. That subscription might be my favorite because it's developed out of a need here at the gallery. So cue curator will be able to bring their artists on the platform, create all their selections, keep track of all their artists. And then there's build an exhibition, There's a methodology in building the exhibition. You go from. Naming the show, naming the artist and it literally sets you right through you select the artist and then literally with a click and a swipe, you can, auto-populate the show documents. You can, auto-populate a press release.

[00:15:24] Stacie: All of it just happens really seamlessly. And then you can submit it for publication on the app or use it for your in real life show. and it's a crucial, set of tools because it's the tools we use to build, exhibitions on the app. It's. And we obviously will use it here at the gallery. so that's art lover and curator, and then the artist, which is near and dear to my heart, obviously because I'm an artist.

[00:15:47] and with a studio practice, keeping track of inventory, keeping track of your work, and then also having these seamless tools to do all your paperwork. So currently I have my website, I have the photography of my work. If I. Lucky enough to sell a piece. I've got to go find that work. I've got to get an image of it.

[00:16:06] Stacie: I've got to put it into an invoice. It takes like three different things. It's all sort of very complex. Once you've loaded your inventory into your app, you'll be able to call up a piece of inventory or 10, and auto-populate a PDF A list of works that you want to send somebody a consignment agreement or.

[00:16:25] Stacie: An invoice. I think I said all of them. Yeah.

[00:16:27] Stacie: So it's auto population of documents and it's literally tap, click swipes, and then you can actually put it in an email and send it to someone. so that that's already like a huge amount happening on the app.

[00:16:42] Stacie: There's many, providers of these services, to the art world and really great ones. Really sophisticated tools. but what we felt beyond providing those tools, what would be great is if we could create a world, people could inhabit as well, so that we could curate from the population of artists. And we could also put our archive of shows on to the platform as,a method for an art lover to discover an artist.

[00:17:09] Stacie: So for instance, when we launched, I think we'll have six or seven exhibitions. If you go to an exhibition, you'll be able to see the work. And if you like that work, you can go in deeper and discover more from that artist and go deeper into their portfolio. then we )have the notice boards. So each of the people that have subscriptions, the artists that aren't living on the cure day, they, you have your notice boards. You can communicate with everybody on the app. You can launch an open call. You can make announcements of events. So that's also really, really exciting.

[00:17:43] Stacie: So the communication tools, and then lastly, we have what I'm very excited about, the helpful matrix. so it's a device where you need a framer or a technician for a show or someone to help you with welding. Because we found here with all the residencies, what was so exciting is how everybody started helping each other.

[00:18:02] Stacie: If, if you've worked with artists, you realize they don't really compete, because your practice is unique to you. And so what we found is amongst our communities, there's this huge volume of information that can be shared amongst us. so the helpful matrix is going to be data driven. So every time someone asks a question, we'll build.

[00:18:22] Stacie: The encyclopedia based on questions rather than educating, we're actually going to just build it based on needs so much like the organic growth of the gallery. So every question will be a data point. If someone starts to ask that question again, it will auto-populate with that. If it's a new question, we'll figure it out, built into the whole, the tech behind it.

[00:18:44] Stacie: So I'm quite excited about powerful matrix and we also have a hotline. So if you need help and hurry. Hotline you can call and ask. what we foresee is this, hopefully the popularity of it is going to be sort of like Netflix and the volume of subscriptions would allow it to be really enriching and it will create enough funding to open.

[00:19:05] Stacie: Hubs and other countries, other cities and galleries and in real life shows for fair ours here, artists?

[00:19:11]

[00:19:11] could you tell us a little bit about the team that you've built over the last years and who has been working with you? Because it must be challenging to manage so many projects at once.

[00:19:21] Yeah, it's an emotional one because Lima nonnenmacher has been my partner in crime for, for years. And it's really too. until really recently until basically the birth of fair art fair, the team was the two of us. and we had different assistants and associates in and around that, but, really in the formative last four years, it's just a Nimo and I shoulder to shoulder, which is when I look back upon what we've done.

[00:19:54] Stacie: I can't believe it was just the two of us. I really.

[00:19:56] Stacie: really can't. And for the last 18 months it has been him working remotely and me alone. which has, there that I can't believe it. I really can't believe it, but it's really true. but having said that since the onset of Pharaoh upstair and a wonderful, art council fund, we had the money to build a team specifically for.

[00:20:17] Isotta: Okay.

[00:20:17] growing our initiative here in the gallery and also building a digital platform, which was the promise in our, funding application. because especially for large funding applications, that you, you have to be very specific in your plan. And so it, it spelled out the team members, we needed it spelled out, the different consultants we needed and we had all of them in mind.

[00:20:38] so when we got the funding last October,we were ready to pull the trigger out of who it would be. And, and we immediately started hiring the team we currently have, which obviously started with, our app developer.

[00:20:52] and in fact, totally intended with that our PR firm as well, Callum. So we had a. Strategic marketing plan. We had the app plan and then obviously the ongoing programs and residencies in the space. so there the sort of, three prongs of what we were kind of spelling out with that funding.

[00:21:11] Isotta: Stacy has decades of experience in the art industry. So one of the things I was really excited to ask her about was her perspective and vision for the future of the art world and the creative industry.

[00:21:21] Stacie: It's screened because what I've got to do is I've got to sort of bridge two generations. The population here is really young. If they're not young, they're young in spirit like me. but at what I've, I have a question since literally my BA is just that business model and my father was, you know, a successful entrepreneur, and that, and very much the.

[00:21:41] Stacie: Kind of profit driven businesses, but I kept on questioning how it worked, that you invested all your time, money, and effort to make something. And then you gave it to someone else to make money on. And that, that just never sat well with me. It's not criticism. I just, I look at that and I'd say, how's that work?

[00:21:58] so over all the years, That thorn in my side, but I'm just like, how could that work differently? so we have, you know, ancient history of artists abdicating their kind of, power to a third party. and it's worked for some, it's not worked for many, I think. What it's also not worked for is, and we very pointedly call them art lovers because the collector has a kind of a cliche identity.

[00:22:29] so that aren't loving is often kind of pushed out of the buying capacity because of such intimidating galleries and high prices. And I do feel like, I mean, the New York times set it up. Others have said it, that it's a dating app for artists and collectors, but in a funny way, I feel like there probably is an art lover for every art piece out there.

[00:22:50] Stacie: And there has to be a more transparent way for those to meet each other. And it's happened to all of us as artists, someone walks in and they're floored. They never saw you work and they suddenly see it and they can't live without it. And you know, there's no gallery in the world that can manifest that accent.

[00:23:06] Stacie: But an app digital environment can actually prosper on that basis. it's an environment to discover and be discovered in its simplest form. But what I find really interesting is it's happening everywhere, you know? Every industry has taken the middleman out. and in strict profit terms, the middleman out means you pay less and the maker gets more.

[00:23:34] Stacie: So that's just really a crass breakdown of it, but it's the truth. but I think also what is. Very important in our time is curation. And I think that's what we are seeing everywhere is that we do still want wisdom. We still do want expertise. and so for not lover to, I don't know if you've ever tried to shop art online, you know, even if you just go on Instagram, how do you do that?

[00:23:58] Stacie: So to have an environment that is curated, that has in real life experience, understanding artists of rigor and integrity is super important this kind of new way of viewing it and giving agency to artists and giving agency to collectors. I think that's really important that they have kind of this, they feel ownership.

[00:24:19] what we feel like is it's deliberation for both. So if you look at the fashion industry and you look at the Haute couture, and you have, they say three to 5,000 women, something like that can collect those dreads.

[00:24:31] Stacie: Or clothes. I think it's for men as well now. And we really want that top. We want that top. We want those designers. I mean, the world would be lesser without Alexander McQueen and all those top designers and the spectacular beauty and nature of that whole world. but what's great about the fashion industry is that you have an entry point for every consumer all the way down to the.

[00:24:54] Stacie: Right. All the way to vintage second hand and any entry point in between call it Zara or, you know, amazing entry points for the consumer. So if you take that same metric and apply it to the art world, from what I understand, there are seven to 8,000 global collectors that inhabit phrase fair, and a large monolithic, and that whole world is built to support those seven, 8,000 connections.

[00:25:23] Stacie: All those auctions, all that. Imagine it's just those few people. But then if you look at the rest of the consumer entry point, it's super limited. And if you think of the number of artists that have really valuable practices, that that huge number of consumers are being neglected and have no entry point.

[00:25:44] Stacie: So this is, to me, it's, it's less working in antagonism to the top art gallery. I think they're brilliant and we need them in the same way I speak of the top fashion industry. So the really exciting thing for me is that this is just providing and place. it's a larger and wider variety of artists, of integrity being brought to what I know.

[00:26:08] Stacie: I mean, gen Z is really want to collect art. It's an exciting place and they also happy really to collect digitally. And they're really happy to have this direct relationship. it's a hugely growing arena and you have to make the space and the connections possible.

[00:26:24] Stacie: I'm really, really excited to be able to contribute something in that art tech worlds.

[00:26:30] and I think we have been incredibly ambitious with what we're trying my developer. I will tell you we've been crazy to build it so much at once. I think we're appealing on a number of levels, but I think one of the most exciting and unexplored levels of the app is how it's going to allow us to discover artists from places. That we wouldn't have had an opportunity to, we are getting emails from small towns in India, from places all over from artists that look to have really interesting practices.

[00:27:04] I just, I love this idea that just through this digital arena, we're going to discover exceptional artists that aren't being seen

[00:27:11] Stacie: So you can find the app in iOS and Android, Sarah, our chair, You can sign up now for three months free. but where is it going?

[00:27:22] I think in no short order, we will have guests selectors looking at the newcomer artist and creating, exhibitions with newcomers. we will be looking and I hope we have enough subscribers and enough interest that we're thinking about doing an in real life. So based on newcomers subscribers, and.

[00:27:41] Stacie: Just as, as it grows, trying to define itself, really, I think being, open and athletic enough to allow it, to teach us what it needs to be. If we get enough artists involved, I think. Tell us what to do. it's the same principle. I attached to my practice as an artist. My work usually tells me what to do and teaches me, and leads me.

[00:28:06] Stacie: And so I'd love for fair fair to continue to enlighten me and teach me what it can be.

[00:28:13] Isotta: thank you for listening to Art Is… a podcast for artists season two, episode 10. I love making the show and I love hearing from you. So please keep reaching out with your thoughts and ideas, or even just to say hi. I also wanted to thank those who have donated to the show. I really appreciate your support if you feel like doing so, you can donate through the link in the episode description while you're there, please check out the links to the artist bookshop,

[00:28:39] Where you can see a curated selection of professional development resources. Also, I wanted to ask a quick favor. When you have a moment, please leave art is a five-star rating and review in apple podcasts. It really helps others find the show. this episode.

[00:28:55] Isotta: Thanks Stacy McCormick for introducing us to Fair Art Fair and sharing her knowledge and expertise. Stacy actually had a gratitude of her own.

[00:29:04] Stacie: I would just like to publicly say, I'm deeply grateful for your phenomenal support in the development of everything that's happened at the gallery and in Fair Art Fair. Thanks so much for tuning in and see you soon.